Episode Transcript
Qin En [00:00]
Hi, I am Qin En, and this is the Parents in Tech podcast.
This month, we have a special collaboration series with Sleek, a one-stop shop for entrepreneurs to start and grow their businesses in Australia, Hong Kong, Singapore, and the UK. I speak to four parents in Sleek to find out how they create work-life integration and balance their career ambitions with family aspirations.
In this episode, I speak with Aisyiah, Head of People and Culture at Sleek. Aisyiah is a proud mom of two teenage kids who keep her young at heart, aged 19 and 15.
Hey Aisyiah. Welcome to the Parents in Tech show. Super excited to have you on here today. And to begin with, could you tell us a bit more about your family?
Aisyiah [00:58]
Hi Qin En. It's my pleasure to meet you. I was really looking forward to this chat. My name Aisyiah. I'm happily married for 24 years and I've been blessed with two kids, a boy and a girl. They're teenagers now. My boy is 19 - his name is Irfan and my girl's 15 and her name's Dhaniya. So I spend a lot of time with my kids. I think they keep me young at heart. We talk about all the teenage stuff, the fun stuff. I'm really happy about that.
Qin En [01:25]
That's incredible. Okay. We're gonna go into your family in a short bit, but first, could you then also introduce yourself on the work side of things?
Aisyiah [01:32]
Of course, very happy to. So I am the Head of People and Culture at Sleek, and I'm one of the fortunate ones because I have been with Sleek right from the start when we were about 10 months old.
So I joined Sleek in 2018 and have seen the company grow from 13 people when I joined to 300 people today. So I'm a proud Sleeker. I enjoy my work. I work with a great team of people and yes, so that’s a little bit about my journey at Sleek.
Qin En [01:59]
And I understand that you also came from a non-tech background, or rather perhaps your previous experiences were not in tech,right? So what led to you joining the tech industry and in particular at that point an early-stage fledgling startup?
Aisyiah [02:14]
Okay. That's a very good question. And you could get, make yourself comfortable Qin En, because I'm gonna tell you a story. And the beauty of this story is that I get to live the story every other day, because sometimes when I'm interviewing candidates, they ask me a similar question, and this is what I share with them.
So, um, prior to joining Sleek, I was actually a stay-at-home mom for six years. And before that I was actually in more established companies. Like I was working in ACRA, the accounting and regulatory board. And so my past companies, the companies that I've worked for have always been the bigger ones, like, you know, MNCs and the very structured ones, right?
So where everything is in place with processes, all I need to do is just go to work, enjoy the benefits, do my job and come back. And they're quite established so they have all the family-friendly benefits as well. So, um, as I was just starting my career in ACRA, that's when I actually got married and, you know, had my kids. So I had both my kids when I was in ACRA and it was really, really a fun environment.
And when I wanted to leave, I was actually told that I'm making one of the biggest mistakes in my life because you know, like some say that, you know, having a job in the civil service is like having an iron rice bowl, right? Are you sure you're gonna do that, Aisyiah? Are you sure? You know, and I was pretty sure because having worked 10 years there, I really wanted to change.
And you know, my family was sad, you know, all, and this time I thought, okay, it's gonna be about me. What do I want to do in my life? I was in my early thirties then, so I had a switch in ACRA. So from, uh, doing a customer facing role, I went into an internal HR role and I enjoyed it. Right. But it was more transactional.
And I wanted to know what HR is really gonna be like for me. So then I went under the special graduate scheme. So I got a little bit of payout, for working 10 years at the company and with that money, I actually went to further my studies. I took a diploma in HR management, and then, so the next couple of years, I was just doing my studies.
And then I went to work with a MNC, which is a very, not really a HR role. But it was still a little bit more administrative. Supervisory position, managing the frontline team. And then I was not so fortunate with getting a good helper - a reliable helper, I would say - and my girl was then very young.
So I had to make the decision a very, very hard decision because it's one of the best places that I worked for. My manager was great. You know, my teammates were great and I had to make that difficult situation. And that affected me quite a bit, actually. So the fix is that I was staying home. The first year, I was a monster and, and you know, like little things, the kids did, I didn't know how to react and how to get through it right. And then things naturally flew. I mean, it naturally grew. And then what I did was, yeah, so, so I was just enjoying my journey as a stay-at-home mom, six years. So what happened was in 2018, right on March 6th. I remember this very date. It was my friend's birthday, so I met her for breakfast. And then she said, oh, I'm going to interview at this company with two French men, uh, you know, as the founders.
So I was like, oh, that's interesting. And then she said, oh, you know, I'm gonna, uh, okay, this, uh, in this team, you know, I'm interviewing for this role. I told her you got all the Birthday luck. I'm sure you're gonna get the role. And then I told her, you know what, hey, my boy's gonna take his O levels next year. And my girl is gonna do her PSLE next year.
And they were coming home quite late. And all I did was talk to the fridge, talk to the furniture. I mean, not literally, but at home I was really, really bored, you know, just waiting for them after getting all my stuff done for the day. And I told her that I think that maybe I'm really ready to go out to work.
Right, but I don't want a job that gives me too many responsibilities. I just wanna go home to work at eight, come back home at five and then just spend the time with my family. So if you come across any administrative positions or receptionist or even opening doors for clients, just let me know.
And funny enough, two weeks later, she contacted me and said, hey, Aisyiah, were you, for real, when you said that? I said, yes, of course. And then she said that Julien, the CEO, just asked me if I knew anyone, you know, who would want to take on this administrative role of just opening up mails, scanning them, opening the door for clients, answering calls.
And I said, yeah, we just, you know, give it a try. Why not? And so I went to the interview. I sent my CV to Julien on a Saturday. We met on a Monday and I was at my work desk on Wednesday.
Qin En [06:33]
Wow. That is an incredible story.
Aisyiah [06:36]
Yes.
Qin En [06:36]
Okay. There's a lot to unpack over there, Aisyiah. So I wanna unpack at two critical decision points. I know it's a while ago but first, tell me a bit more about that decision to leave the workforce. I'm sure that was a challenging one, right? Because you're used to certain things you want to do in your career. You were used to a certain lifestyle, but that decision to step down and be there for your children. Talk to me a bit more about what went through your mind at that stage.
Aisyiah [07:02]
Okay. I think first of all, it was just boredom. I'm someone who likes change, right? Even at home my husband sometimes doesn't know if he entered the right home because I like to change my furniture, move my furniture, you know, and, and that, so lucky I live in a HDB flat.
If it was for a big bungalow. I dunno what to say, but I really like change. I like to see things in a different way, you know, and all that. So when I worked in ACRA, like 30 years and at 30, I had my girl. So now, you know, my age so yeah, when I was 10 years (in) and then I just saw some of my friends doing different things and excelling in their lives, right. They could further their studies and all.
So just to share a little bit more with you, I got married at a very young age, so at 21, and I didn't really get much to really work on myself and upgrade at that time because I come from a traditional Indian family and all they say is, okay, you've done, you know, enough of studies do this, do that, get married, go find a job.
You know, the very typical mindset, but I was a little bit different. And my number one fan and supporter is my husband. So he told me, look, you know what, you're great at what you're doing already. I think you've done so much, you know, you've really reached, I think, at your optimum level for what you're doing right now.
I think it's time you really take a step back, and think about what you really want to do. And since, you know, I, I didn't have, you know, when my boss said that, okay, why don't you try HR, instead of resigning from the company. And when I tried HR and then said, okay, why not? I study a little bit more what HR is about, you know, and all that.
And I think that wanting to be a different person and wanting to learn something new was the thing that actually made me really wanna make this bold move to really, you know, step out and make that career change. And I think it was quite difficult because I had a lot of people who were very close to me and who were not supporting me in that decision, you know, like I'd shared with you, working in a stable sector, having a stable job. And, you know, you had friends in the private sector who were, uh, changing jobs every like two or three years, right? For me, it's like, when I joined a company, it was, it must be forever.
So that's how I am. And so that was something really, really hard that I had to work on, but I had my husband with me supporting me all the way and said, no, it's okay. Take your time. Even if you can't find a good company or something that you like, you can really stay home and do what you like, and I'm gonna support you. So if not for his support, I think I will not be where I am today. Yeah.
Qin En [09:34]
That's awesome. And I think really that, that partnership is truly exemplified in that relationship. Now, we talked a bit about your temporary exit from the workforce. Now let's talk about the entry, having not worked for a couple of years and then within a week coming back in. Was that something that you were worried about? What were some of the worries and anxieties you had of coming back to work, uh, after you've been sort of like out of it, so to speak for a while.
Aisyiah [10:00]
Okay. So I must say that, you know, so I'm gonna quote you this incident that happened during the interview with Julien. So when I was speaking to him, I still wanted to be there for my family. Especially my kids, right? Because I've spent like six long years with them and, you know, they have always had me during lunch, during dinner and, you know, weekends and all.
So, of course, I spoke to them before making this decision. So I asked Julien if, I mean, the working hours were nine to six. So the first question was: can I have a flexible working time? From eight to five because I dropped my girl off at seven-ish. So is it okay if I start at eight and then I'll run home at five to my family and instantly, he said yes.
So I was quite surprised because to me, I mean like now, where everything's trending, where we want to be the employer of choice and allow flexibility and all that, but Sleek right from the start when I joined, already offered such flexibility. So I was happy that instantly, he said, yeah, sure. As long as you are here, you're happy.
And number two was funny. I told him, Julien, I can't start immediately - because he wanted me to start right away. And I said, my wardrobe is full of like, home clothes because, you know, I just wear very simple clothes, schools, ferry the kids here and there, and that's it. I didn't have proper working clothes.
So can I have some time to do some shopping and change my wardrobe before I come to work? And then he said, no, Aisyiah, this is a startup. So just come in, whatever you are comfortable with. So can you imagine the kind of things I was going through in my mind, my wardrobe and in my kids and stuff and not knowing what is awaiting me because I joined the company as an admin executive.
So I didn't feel that there was so much of responsibilities for me, so that didn't really give me much fear. So I was just very confident and Qin En, I must say that the 6 years that I was staying at home, I wasn't really having a “tai tai life”. What I was doing actually is really trying to sharpen my sword.
I love to listen to podcasts, like, you know, like YouTube videos, like self improvement. I always wanted to improve and be better than who I was the day before. So I think that made me quite readily available, but the struggle only came in about five months later when there was an opportunity for a promotion to be a HR manager.
So something that I was really passionate about. Like, you know, because I studied HR diploma. I really wanted to pursue a career in that. And when Julien gave me the opportunity, I was really over the moon, but of course, then the fear started. You know, first of all, I had to speak to my kids. I had to speak to my husband, like, is it really, you know, like, should I really go ahead and accept this?
Because you know, being a manager means more responsibilities. The working hours may differ and you know, as a startup as we were growing, I could already see that it was such a brilliant product and the services that we are doing for all the entrepreneurs - we would be very successful one day. And if I'm gonna grow with this company, is this where I really wanna be?
And am I gonna, you know, the hustle and the grind and all that? Is it something that I really wanna sign up for, and I had their support. My kids were like, yes, mom, don't worry. Go ahead. We'll do our own laundry. We will do our stuff. But of course, you know, not everything. We still need you by our side and stuff like that.
And my husband was very supportive as well. He said, go ahead. I will be with you along the way. So without my family support again, and even Julien, right. And my colleagues in the management team gave me so much support. And again, sometimes we talk about the successful people, but I think there's a huge team behind them supporting them and cheering them on. And I think we have to give credit to them.
Qin En [13:36]
Wow. That is really an incredible story. And this is really very inspiring for the parents, especially the moms out there who might be on a career break, listening to this, just in transition and contemplating their willingness to make the leap. But also the small things like getting your wardrobe, like, I mean, these are the things that do cost a fair bit of stress surprisingly, and are not properly spoken about.
And for yourself, Aisyiah as, as you progress through, and now you head the people, the culture, the talent at Sleek - how do you think about creating the same environment for parents like yourself to be successful at the workplace?
Aisyiah [14:12]
Yeah, so I think building trust first, right with the team is very important. Because when you build trust, you actually know what their actual needs are, so that is number one for the employees. And I think I've achieved that by having this open communication with the team, and they're usually very transparent about what they want with their needs. And as soon as they open up and share ideas or, you know, their struggles, I'll just share with you another example. So, you know, we all went through this COVID phase, right?
So I'm not sure if you've read about our Sleek values - Simplicity, Loyalty, Entrepreneurial, Excellence and Kindness. So when COVID happened, we were all shaken. We all got a bit of shock and since we were so united and then suddenly we are seeing our team members in little squares, right? And then I started receiving feedback from some of my colleagues and saying hey Aisyiah, this, this person is not so kind to me anymore used to be so kind. And with the office when we were like all, you know, working together, but now I've just observed that he's just become a little bit aloof and, you know, not opening up and all that. So that got me quite worried because I know something is wrong, but how do we address such situations?
But I was very thankful that, you know, this matter was brought up to me. And then what we did was I told the HR team and also shared with the management team that, okay, we are gonna speak to each and every employee and ask them, how are they actually coping? So we had like a 15 minute call. Me and my team members. And we spoke to each and every employee and the moms had mom issues, dads have dad issues and the single ones even had issues. They were working from the dining table, working in their studio apartment. And so we had to come up with initiatives like changing our health benefits to flexi health benefits and allowing them to use that benefit to, you know, purchase work from home set up and maybe buy some gymwear, sports shoes, go out and take a walk, you know, and stuff like that. So I think communicating and having that open relationship with your team is really, really important as a manager and for moms like me, I think some, you know, they just don't want to show that they're struggling because it's a women thing, right?
Like if you have a colleague who's like a male and then you don't wanna lose out, so you just wanna perform and, you know, just show them that - no, I also can take it, you know, and then, but then they're struggling with it and that's not what we want. We want everyone to be happy in the workplace and to be really, always transparent with us on their daily struggles at home, or even with themselves. In that context, Sleek is really blessed that, you know, we have a great team of people who are usually open to sharing such things and, and I encourage every mom to do that.
Just be open and transparent with yourself. And also with those around you - your HR, your managers, and even with your team, right. Just be open with them.
Qin En [16:59]
Yeah. Wow. That's really incredible. The commitment and the dedication to speak with each one, one-on-one, to really understand them, regardless of whether they're a parent or not and make them feel comfortable, made them feel heard. I think that in itself, it's quite remarkable.
Aisyiah [17:14]
That's right.
Qin En [17:16]
Aisyiah, I'm also curious, right? How has being a leader at the workplace helped you to become a better parent and vice versa.
Aisyiah [17:26]
I think I was more of a leader at home first than at the workplace. For me, leaders are not just about leading. [but] setting a good example. I mean, leading my example is something that has always been important for me, right from the start, because that's how I learned. I observe my dad, my mom, my grandma, my granddad, and whatever they told me like, be like this, be like that. No, I never listen to any[one else]. I just see what my mom does. My dad does.
And I just learned. So I think when I became a parent, I told myself that, okay, if I'm going to be a mom and if I want my kids to behave in such a way, I have to lead by example. Of course, I think emotional intelligence is really, really important so, you know, being empathetic and also I started to foster that first at home.
And then, uh, yeah, so you try, uh, you try to foster that culture with your kids and have that again, you know, that open communication with them. And it's not only about I'm a parent. I have the cane, you have to listen to me. No, it always has to be a two way thing. So they are given what, whatever they need, right, to be themselves and also to open up and share their thoughts and their feelings with me as well. And I just don't, I'm not. I don't just dictate like, okay, go do this. No, I always tell them whenever I ask you to do something, or if you're supposed to do something, always ask yourself why, like, why are you doing this?
And why do you need to do this? And I think with that, you can become sort of like a leader, like at home. And for me, it's always been a collaborative one. I'm not really the parent at home. and not like [those] typical traditional Indian parents that I had, but are more, you know, you know, trying to be a friend, but of course, you know, uh, having said that, right, the respect. Yeah. And all that is of course a must. And then in the workplace, first of all, I think I learned again by observing, I see how my leaders are performing, how they're speaking, how they're working and who I am today. I think, uh, at the workplace there are also a lot of them because you know, like I shared with you, I was more of an accidental leader.
I joined in as an admin. Yeah. And then I became a manager. So I didn't know what was expected of me. I had to observe, I had to learn and I had to make a lot of mistakes. I have to learn along the way, but I think asking a lot and reading a lot about the type of leader you wanna be, do you want, you know, that different types of leadership, servant leadership, you know, and, and also learning, uh, along the way and observing, um, your leaders. Uh, and I think that's how I think I've, I've, uh, able to be like.
Qin En [20:14]
That's incredible.
Aisyiah [20:15]
Sorry if I, if I, did I answer your question?
Qin En [20:17]
Yeah, yeah, no, no, no. I think, I think it did. And I think one of the things that stands out is really that collaborative nature. And this brings me [to] a very interesting point, right? Which is that your children now are in their teenage years.
And I think you are, have the benefit of seeing them grow through quite a few phases in their growth. So here's perhaps a trick question or other slightly more complex question, which is if I had to ask you to chart the different chapters of growth, uh, along your parenthood journey - how would you describe it?
And perhaps in each of the chapters, what was the biggest challenge you had to face and you had to overcome?
Aisyiah [20:53]
Well, to be completely honest with you. Um, I think the most difficult phase for me was when they were in primary school from P1 to P6, because both of my kids, right, they love to learn, but they do not want to go to school. Especially my girl - she has a love for learning, but she doesn't like going to school.
So some days she'll just tell me, mom, I don't wanna go to school today. I've got this subject. I just wanna stay home with you and spend some time.
Qin En [21:21]
Interesting.
Aisyiah [21:22]
And, and I'm not that lion or a tiger mom. So some days I'm like, okay, this is your choice. Um, we all have choices in life. So today you wake up and if you decide you don't wanna go to school, fine, but then, you know, what's gonna happen, right? You know, if you don't go to school, your teacher's gonna call me and then I need to explain, and what am I gonna explain to the teacher? You know, and that sort of thing. So I think that was my struggle a lot in their primary years, but I'm quite a blessed person. I did not have that much of a struggle. During the early years I had my mom who just lives five minutes away from me. And, and so when I was working at that time, I could just leave my kids there and then she would take care of them and then I'll run home, you know, and all that.
So I didn't really have many challenges then maybe I think now I'm actually more relaxed. It's me and my husband. We are back to like honeymoon years, you know, just like as a couple because the kids are big. They don't want to really go out with us that much, but I think now one of the challenges that I'm facing is of course, um, for, for them to really share a little bit more with me, I only get this little hours with them, like with my boy, it's only like our nighttime chats in the couch right. On the couch. Right. But he's watching his soccer match and all that. And that's when I try to ask him, but oh, okay. So how was school like, you know, how was your friend? Where did you go? What did you do? And he just wants to watch.
Qin En [22:45]
We've all been through that.
Aisyiah [22:47]
Right? Yeah. It's not time to talk, but you know, that's the only time I get and you know how I'm gonna balance that. So that is one of my challenges now, but fortunately for my girl, we have a very close relationship. Um, she's actually my shadow and wherever I go, she follows me. We have our girls day out once a month. So again, you know, I, I'm sorry I had to disappoint you, but I really didn't have that much of a difficult phase for me except the primary school years when it's just about like, you know, spending so much time in school when they're learning and, and yeah, that's it.
Qin En [23:23]
That's incredible. And thank you for, for sharing that inspiring story. I think that's something that definitely not wanting to go to school is something that I think quite a few other parents listening to the podcast can relate to. But I think the way you handle it of explaining it and not just saying, just because I'm your parent, you should listen to me. I think that really it's the nurturing approach that stands out to me.
This has been a really, really fascinating conversation. I think there's so much wisdom that you have. So to sort of wrap up our time today, what is one advice you have for parents in tech?
Aisyiah [23:56]
I think I would say this, but it's not because you know, it's something trending now, uh, but I would say self-care, because I think as a parent, we worry for our kids. We want the best for our kids. You know, we work really hard for our kids so that they can have, you know, the best times. I mean, that's what I do at least.
And it's always about the kids. And I think when I'm going through that journey, I, I stop to take a step back and look at myself, like, what do I need? You know, like, do I need to take care of myself? So I am guilty of that, that I neglected myself at some point in time, especially during, you know, maybe the past two years, you know, in Sleek when we were growing so quickly, the pandemic hit, you know, and all, and I, again, like many others, I had a meltdown as well, but I, again, I was very fortunate to have the right people with me to remind me to say hey, Aisyiah, you know, stop look at yourself, take care of yourself, take a break if you need to, you know.
Right from my managers to my family and all. The one advice is always to take care of yourself first and make sure that you're the best of health and the best of wellbeing in the moods, so that you can give, and you can really perform, you know, at your, at your best, at your optimal level.
Qin En [25:10]
Absolutely, take care for yourself first. And I think that's good advice, right? For parents who need to hear this. So often we want to be the best at our work to be the best for our families, but you first have to take care of yourself so that you can care for others.
Aisyiah [25:25]
Exactly. And, you know, at first I thought it was being selfish when you were taking care of yourself first. Um, because you know, you just want your kids to be, you know, well, and you know, your husband and your parents and all, and then when you follow, you actually become sort of like a burden, right? So then I realized that no, it, it should be the other way around. You have to take care of yourself. Only then, you know, um, we can all be happy.
Qin En [25:49]
Absolutely. Yeah. It's such a joy talking to you today, Aisyiah, thank you so much for opening up and being so candid about it. Should some of our audience want to connect with you, how can the best do so?
Aisyiah [26:00]
Right. So they can connect me on LinkedIn.
Qin En [26:03]
Sure.
Aisyiah [26:03]
I'm happy to connect with everyone.
Qin En [26:06]
All right. We'll include your later profile in the show notes. Well, thank you so much once again, and we'll see you around.
Aisyiah [26:11]
Sure. Thank you so much Qin En. I really appreciate that.
Qin En [26:19]
Thanks for listening to the Parents In Tech podcast. With me, your host, Qin En.
We hope you were inspired how to raise kids and build companies. To catch up on earlier episodes or stay updated with upcoming ones, head over to www.parents.fm to join our community of Parents In Tech. There, you can also drop me a question, idea, feedback or suggestion. Once again, the website is www.parents.fm.
That's all for this episode, folks. See you next time.
